Comments on: Get off your high horse Ed! http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/ Tom Raftery, social media consultant, speaker, blogger and podcaster Tue, 20 May 2008 18:12:55 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Peter Lawless http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115658 Peter Lawless Sun, 30 Mar 2008 18:00:04 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115658 My dear friends, its called marketing - more people will keep it, and besides apple seem to be able to get away with it. I suppose I could say that if you want to do marketing the ethical way, then maybe 3R could help you, but one has to wonder if that is ethical in itself! My dear friends, its called marketing - more people will keep it, and besides apple seem to be able to get away with it.

I suppose I could say that if you want to do marketing the ethical way, then maybe 3R could help you, but one has to wonder if that is ethical in itself!

]]> By: Assa Fetyia http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115579 Assa Fetyia Thu, 27 Mar 2008 09:39:09 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115579 I personally think that this kind of hijack is what contributes most to the "anti microsoft" feeling. When will they learn that people want choice. I personally think that this kind of hijack is what contributes most to the “anti microsoft” feeling. When will they learn that people want choice.

]]> By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115508 Tom Raftery Tue, 25 Mar 2008 23:39:02 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115508 <blockquote>Where on earth did you get that nonsense?</blockquote> I got that nonsense John by testing it in XP on Parallels on my Mac and on Vista on my Vaio and comparing those tests to all other main browsers. I blogged all the tests. Check back along in your reader or do a search on the site for "Sunspider" I might ask where you got the nonsense about it being slower than IE7?

Where on earth did you get that nonsense?

I got that nonsense John by testing it in XP on Parallels on my Mac and on Vista on my Vaio and comparing those tests to all other main browsers.

I blogged all the tests. Check back along in your reader or do a search on the site for “Sunspider”

I might ask where you got the nonsense about it being slower than IE7?

]]> By: John Handelaar http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115506 John Handelaar Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:57:10 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115506 <em>The next fastest browser is the IE8 BetaThe next fastest browser is the IE8 Beta</em> Where on earth did you get that nonsense? Every test so far says it's not only markedly slower than FF3 and Webkit, but also takes half as long again to do anything as IE7 did. The next fastest browser is the IE8 BetaThe next fastest browser is the IE8 Beta

Where on earth did you get that nonsense? Every test so far says it’s not only markedly slower than FF3 and Webkit, but also takes half as long again to do anything as IE7 did.

]]> By: slappy http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115503 slappy Tue, 25 Mar 2008 21:48:38 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115503 I guess he forgot about that little thing that MS did with the OS behind everyones back. Without permissions, MS modified system files. I guess he forgot about that little thing that MS did with the OS behind everyones back. Without permissions, MS modified system files.

]]> By: Red Bott http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115486 Red Bott Tue, 25 Mar 2008 17:30:42 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115486 I've been using a wide variety of OSes for a VERY long time and I can tell you with certainty that if Apple did this and also then told everyone that Safari couldn't possibly be un-installed, then they wouldn't even be getting close to being as sneaky as Microsoft. I’ve been using a wide variety of OSes for a VERY long time and I can tell you with certainty that if Apple did this and also then told everyone that Safari couldn’t possibly be un-installed, then they wouldn’t even be getting close to being as sneaky as Microsoft.

]]> By: mj http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115481 mj Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:14:14 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115481 That's exactly right, Branedy Well, there's several million iPod users and a lot of them are "Yeah, sure" clickers. So there'll be jockeying for position on the Windows desktop. Microsoft is crying foul because it's they who have the most to lose. That’s exactly right, Branedy

Well, there’s several million iPod users and a lot of them are “Yeah, sure” clickers. So there’ll be jockeying for position on the Windows desktop.

Microsoft is crying foul because it’s they who have the most to lose.

]]> By: Branedy http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115480 Branedy Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:09:40 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115480 This could all be very important to Microsoft as Internet Explorer has now drop below 50% of the browser market. Having Safari suddenly inserted into a higher rank, only hurts that much more. This could all be very important to Microsoft as Internet Explorer has now drop below 50% of the browser market. Having Safari suddenly inserted into a higher rank, only hurts that much more.

]]> By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115479 Tom Raftery Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:07:13 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115479 Ed, two things: 1 - As Zoli said it was the case when I posted my original post (linked to above). If it is fixed now, I am delighted to hear it but the point remains that Microsoft's does/has behave/d similarly. You can't take a pot-shot at Apple for their behaviour when Microsoft is just as culpable. 2 - As to the automatic updater point, that is pretty much a red herring. Whether I went looking for the update or the update came looking for me, it is still just as wrong to have opt-in apps I didn't want added to the update. Ed,

two things:
1 - As Zoli said it was the case when I posted my original post (linked to above). If it is fixed now, I am delighted to hear it but the point remains that Microsoft’s does/has behave/d similarly. You can’t take a pot-shot at Apple for their behaviour when Microsoft is just as culpable.

2 - As to the automatic updater point, that is pretty much a red herring. Whether I went looking for the update or the update came looking for me, it is still just as wrong to have opt-in apps I didn’t want added to the update.

]]> By: Roger http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115476 Roger Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:07:08 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115476 When I get a software update from Apple for my Mac, all the software boxes are checked; And I must uncheck things I do not want. This was the OSX update mode of operation from the start. I never ask for Safari on the Mac but it comes with an OSX install. It appears to me that Apple is somewhat consistent on Windows as it is on the Mac. Although, I think the "opt-in" is a better method. I think Apple uses the "Opt-out" on the Mac because many users do not know if they even use the software being up-dated. If it didn't get updated the user may end up with broken or lesser use of their Mac. I suppose this is also why they send installs of itunes, iPhone, iPod even when you do not have these on you Mac. When I get a software update from Apple for my Mac, all the software boxes are checked; And I must uncheck things I do not want. This was the OSX update mode of operation from the start. I never ask for Safari on the Mac but it comes with an OSX install. It appears to me that Apple is somewhat consistent on Windows as it is on the Mac. Although, I think the “opt-in” is a better method.

I think Apple uses the “Opt-out” on the Mac because many users do not know if they even use the software being up-dated. If it didn’t get updated the user may end up with broken or lesser use of their Mac. I suppose this is also why they send installs of itunes, iPhone, iPod even when you do not have these on you Mac.

]]> By: Jon http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115475 Jon Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:48:12 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115475 I've come across people who didn't realise you could get additional applications for their computer. And some who thought they could only buy software with the Microsoft seal of approval (logo) on it. I’ve come across people who didn’t realise you could get additional applications for their computer. And some who thought they could only buy software with the Microsoft seal of approval (logo) on it.

]]> By: Linda http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115474 Linda Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:43:40 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115474 It's interesting to read this debate in light of recent "opt-in" scandals related to private personal info exchanged or posted online. The EU requires that a user's private information be carefully protected through specific opt-ins, an issue that got Facebook into some trouble last year with its Beacon platform. If I choose when to upload/share my personal info, I think that its equally important I choose what gets downloaded/shared with my personal computer. Both should be carefully protected by as many opt-ins as necessary, I think. It's simple to click yes. It’s interesting to read this debate in light of recent “opt-in” scandals related to private personal info exchanged or posted online. The EU requires that a user’s private information be carefully protected through specific opt-ins, an issue that got Facebook into some trouble last year with its Beacon platform. If I choose when to upload/share my personal info, I think that its equally important I choose what gets downloaded/shared with my personal computer. Both should be carefully protected by as many opt-ins as necessary, I think. It’s simple to click yes.

]]> By: Ed Bott http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115472 Ed Bott Tue, 25 Mar 2008 13:09:30 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115472 Zoli, the software you describe was a beta release. The purpose of a beta is to get feedback from users. They got the feedback, and they changed it for the final release. That sounds like the system worked. And again, it was not an automatic updater. A point everyone keeps ignoring. Zoli, the software you describe was a beta release. The purpose of a beta is to get feedback from users. They got the feedback, and they changed it for the final release. That sounds like the system worked.

And again, it was not an automatic updater. A point everyone keeps ignoring.

]]> By: Zoli Erdos http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115471 Zoli Erdos Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:55:37 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115471 @Ed, you're not seeing the Windows Live behaviour because MS <a href="http://www.zoliblog.com/2007/10/18/windows-desktop-search-microsoft-does-listen-after-all/">changed their position</a> 3 months later - largely due to user outcry. But it was worse than opt-out instead of opt-in: if you wanted the photo app, you got Desktop Search, without a choice, without even a warning. That's a fundamental change to a computer's basic setup, one that can bring it to its knees when two search apps run competing for resources. @Ed, you’re not seeing the Windows Live behaviour because MS changed their position 3 months later - largely due to user outcry.

But it was worse than opt-out instead of opt-in: if you wanted the photo app, you got Desktop Search, without a choice, without even a warning. That’s a fundamental change to a computer’s basic setup, one that can bring it to its knees when two search apps run competing for resources.

]]> By: Apple Sneaky, Microsoft is No Angel, Either| Zoli’s Blog http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115470 Apple Sneaky, Microsoft is No Angel, Either| Zoli’s Blog Tue, 25 Mar 2008 12:34:41 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115470 [...] posts: Gizmodo, Inner Exception, Tom Raftery’s Social Media and [...] [...] posts: Gizmodo, Inner Exception, Tom Raftery’s Social Media and [...]

]]> By: mj http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115465 mj Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:29:42 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115465 @Tom Raftery - och, sure never let facts get in the way of a good barney. Microsoft is amusing me in this example because they are the poster-child for nagware in the past. Update IE and it gets turned into your default browser. Update IE? Oh, get Outlook Express too. Run security updates on Windows and get the latest versions of IE and WinMedia at the same time. And reboot three times to get it. It's one thing for you or me to bitch about this latest development from Cupertino. From the lackeys at Redmond, it's just hypocrisy. @Tom Raftery - och, sure never let facts get in the way of a good barney. Microsoft is amusing me in this example because they are the poster-child for nagware in the past. Update IE and it gets turned into your default browser. Update IE? Oh, get Outlook Express too. Run security updates on Windows and get the latest versions of IE and WinMedia at the same time. And reboot three times to get it.

It’s one thing for you or me to bitch about this latest development from Cupertino. From the lackeys at Redmond, it’s just hypocrisy.

]]> By: Ed Bott http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115464 Ed Bott Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:22:58 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115464 Tom, two things: #1, the behavior you describe is not what I've seen with the Windows Live stuff. The screen shot you showed was from a beta that was fixed. I just went to install Live Writer on a test machine here and nothing else was installed except Live Writer. Five additional apps were on the list, but all were unchecked. I have a screen shot and will publish it if you would like. As of today, all the Live services are opt-in. #2, you "went to the website" and downloaded an update. This is not an automatic updater we're talking about, which was my point. Tom, two things:

#1, the behavior you describe is not what I’ve seen with the Windows Live stuff. The screen shot you showed was from a beta that was fixed. I just went to install Live Writer on a test machine here and nothing else was installed except Live Writer. Five additional apps were on the list, but all were unchecked. I have a screen shot and will publish it if you would like. As of today, all the Live services are opt-in.

#2, you “went to the website” and downloaded an update. This is not an automatic updater we’re talking about, which was my point.

]]> By: mj http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115462 mj Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:14:02 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115462 @Conn O Muineachain I disagree - I think it's more malice than stupidity. But the sort of people who just click OK anyway - it's a better option than going IE8. @Conn O Muineachain
I disagree - I think it’s more malice than stupidity. But the sort of people who just click OK anyway - it’s a better option than going IE8.

]]> By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115461 Tom Raftery Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:13:32 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115461 Ah now, steady on mj - in fairness to Microsoft IE8 Beta has most of that (the ui is debatable and it is far from stable yet but...) Ah now, steady on mj - in fairness to Microsoft IE8 Beta has most of that (the ui is debatable and it is far from stable yet but…)

]]> By: Conn O Muineachain http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115460 Conn O Muineachain Tue, 25 Mar 2008 11:12:25 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/get-off-your-high-horse-ed/#comment-115460 I'm a Windows guy with an iPod. When I saw Safari in the update list I thought it must be a mistake. Surely they wouldn't offer me a new application in an automatic update? Does Safari even run on Windows? (I don't know) What is Safari anyway? (I know - but a lot of people in my position don't) TBH I still think it's a cock-up. "Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity" I can't see Apple making new friends this way. Most people won't even realise they've got a new browser, and those that do will be pissed off at the sneakiness of it. I’m a Windows guy with an iPod. When I saw Safari in the update list I thought it must be a mistake. Surely they wouldn’t offer me a new application in an automatic update? Does Safari even run on Windows? (I don’t know) What is Safari anyway? (I know - but a lot of people in my position don’t)

TBH I still think it’s a cock-up. “Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity” I can’t see Apple making new friends this way. Most people won’t even realise they’ve got a new browser, and those that do will be pissed off at the sneakiness of it.

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