Comments on: “Thank you for taking the trouble to complain” http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/ Tom Raftery, social media consultant, speaker, blogger and podcaster Sat, 05 Jul 2008 23:21:04 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Infomercial Products http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-13102 Infomercial Products Wed, 07 Jun 2006 15:04:06 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-13102 You're in business. And in business you don't have to take every deal. You can draw the line at abusive behavior by the customer. You can draw the line at customers lying to take advantage. You can draw the line at customers stealing. In fact, you can draw the line anywhere you want. There are stores not letting people in because they don't look rich enough. Fair enough, if they don't expect them to get in later when they do. You’re in business. And in business you don’t have to take every deal. You can draw the line at abusive behavior by the customer. You can draw the line at customers lying to take advantage. You can draw the line at customers stealing. In fact, you can draw the line anywhere you want. There are stores not letting people in because they don’t look rich enough. Fair enough, if they don’t expect them to get in later when they do.

]]> By: As Seen On TV Products http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-11666 As Seen On TV Products Sat, 27 May 2006 23:05:06 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-11666 There are opportunities for great Customer Service everywhere. Customers will notice, even if what you are doing could, should, or used to be the standard. Little things make a difference. There are opportunities for great Customer Service everywhere.
Customers will notice, even if what you are doing could, should, or used to be the standard.
Little things make a difference.

]]> By: As Seen On TV http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-11664 As Seen On TV Sat, 27 May 2006 22:57:43 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-11664 There are ways around that too - for instance, anyone registering for the forum - put a flag on their account when they register (if they don’t have an application account) and check for that flag as part of the login process. There are ways around that too - for instance, anyone registering for the forum - put a flag on their account when they register (if they don’t have an application account) and check for that flag as part of the login process.

]]> By: gpshewan http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4543 gpshewan Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:06:08 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4543 Read something in the newspaper at the weekend that reminded me of this thread. It's the 'W cubed' philospophy of customer service which relates to 'Whatever, Wherever, Whenever'. I can't remember hearing it described that way before and I think I prefer that to the well worn "The customer is always right" adage. Read something in the newspaper at the weekend that reminded me of this thread. It’s the ‘W cubed’ philospophy of customer service which relates to ‘Whatever, Wherever, Whenever’. I can’t remember hearing it described that way before and I think I prefer that to the well worn “The customer is always right” adage.

]]> By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4524 Tom Raftery Sun, 05 Feb 2006 11:33:59 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4524 Hey Piaras, Thanks for commenting on this discussion. I understand your point about the customer always being right but I have a feeling you are taking it a little too literally. My understanding of the expression is that you never disagree with the customer, you never tell them they are wrong, and you <em>never</em> argue with a customer (especially on a public forum!). As for the forums sign-on issue - it really isn't a biggie. What is more disturbing here is the companies attitude to their customers - instead of trying to delight their customers they are trying to antagonise them! This is like the anitthesis of what <a href="http://customerevangelists.typepad.com/blog/">Ben and Jackie</a> would espouse on their Church of the Customer blog and it certainly goes against everything I have read in the <a href="http://www.cluetrain.com/">Cluetrain Manifesto</a>. Then again maybe Alex knows something about customer service or the customer experience which Jackie, Ben, Doc, David, Chris, et al don't. Hey Piaras,

Thanks for commenting on this discussion.

I understand your point about the customer always being right but I have a feeling you are taking it a little too literally. My understanding of the expression is that you never disagree with the customer, you never tell them they are wrong, and you never argue with a customer (especially on a public forum!).

As for the forums sign-on issue - it really isn’t a biggie. What is more disturbing here is the companies attitude to their customers - instead of trying to delight their customers they are trying to antagonise them! This is like the anitthesis of what Ben and Jackie would espouse on their Church of the Customer blog and it certainly goes against everything I have read in the Cluetrain Manifesto.

Then again maybe Alex knows something about customer service or the customer experience which Jackie, Ben, Doc, David, Chris, et al don’t.

]]> By: Piaras Kelly http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4514 Piaras Kelly Sat, 04 Feb 2006 16:42:19 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4514 Not to sound incredibly crude, but the issue of having to sign up for an account to their forums sounds like saying 'I bought toilet paper and I expected it to wipe my ass'. Having worked in retail in the past, I can categorically state that the customer isn't always right. Companies shouldn't live by that motto either. I think the term customer service should be abolished and replaced by customer experience. Rather than dealing with complaints, I think companies should go out to make their customer's experience as excellent as possible. So in this instance, maybe companies should realise that an automatic account for their support forum should be part of their registration policy. However, I don't think the lack of an automatic login is grounds for a complaint. I can't think of a single purchase online where I've haven't had to create an account for their forums. Not to sound incredibly crude, but the issue of having to sign up for an account to their forums sounds like saying ‘I bought toilet paper and I expected it to wipe my ass’.

Having worked in retail in the past, I can categorically state that the customer isn’t always right. Companies shouldn’t live by that motto either. I think the term customer service should be abolished and replaced by customer experience. Rather than dealing with complaints, I think companies should go out to make their customer’s experience as excellent as possible. So in this instance, maybe companies should realise that an automatic account for their support forum should be part of their registration policy. However, I don’t think the lack of an automatic login is grounds for a complaint. I can’t think of a single purchase online where I’ve haven’t had to create an account for their forums.

]]> By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4491 Tom Raftery Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:32:53 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4491 Maria - thanks for stopping by and commenting (nice plug ;-) ) Gary, I think you are absolutely right. It is a pity really because FeedLounge has a nice interface and if you ignore the significant performance issues, it seems quite a good app. However, I can't recommend a service unless they fundamentally believe "The customer is always right" - and from reading <a href="http://www.customersarealways.com/">Maria's blog</a>, I know she agrees with me too! Maria - thanks for stopping by and commenting (nice plug ;-) )

Gary, I think you are absolutely right. It is a pity really because FeedLounge has a nice interface and if you ignore the significant performance issues, it seems quite a good app.

However, I can’t recommend a service unless they fundamentally believe “The customer is always right” - and from reading Maria’s blog, I know she agrees with me too!

]]> By: gpshewan http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4489 gpshewan Fri, 03 Feb 2006 11:10:12 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4489 Alex do you not realise the damage you are doing? I've NEVER heard somebody publically say they must be a "glutton for punishment" for dealing with a customer. Stop trying to drive the conversation to the forum for gods sake, you take up the conversation where ever the customer wants it to be. I've flown from one end of th country to the other for an hour meeting with a customer - <em>because they were the customer!</em> Seriously, you aren't demonstrating a good client/customer attitude. Your attitude belongs more the the WP forums if you want honesty. I'll certainly not recommend Feedlounge after this. Thanks for writing about it though Tom. Alex do you not realise the damage you are doing? I’ve NEVER heard somebody publically say they must be a “glutton for punishment” for dealing with a customer. Stop trying to drive the conversation to the forum for gods sake, you take up the conversation where ever the customer wants it to be. I’ve flown from one end of th country to the other for an hour meeting with a customer - because they were the customer!

Seriously, you aren’t demonstrating a good client/customer attitude. Your attitude belongs more the the WP forums if you want honesty. I’ll certainly not recommend Feedlounge after this.

Thanks for writing about it though Tom.

]]> By: Maria Palma http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4466 Maria Palma Fri, 03 Feb 2006 03:34:37 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4466 Why argue with someone who obviously does not want to LISTEN to the customer? Yes, this person/company certainly needs someone else to handle customer issues. ~Maria Palma http://www.customersarealways.com Why argue with someone who obviously does not want to LISTEN to the customer? Yes, this person/company certainly needs someone else to handle customer issues.

~Maria Palma
http://www.customersarealways.com

]]> By: Alex http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4458 Alex Thu, 02 Feb 2006 23:43:26 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4458 Apparently I'm a glutton for punishment, because I'm going to try this one more time... <blockquote>if Alex had simply said at the start - “you know that’s not a bad idea Tom - we’ll take that into consideration. Right now we’re swamped but next week/month when things quieten down a bit we’ll revisit this issue. Any other problems, feel free to contact me.â€? This would have taken 2 minutes and it would have immediately ended the issue - instead Alex chose to argue the point. The funny thing in all this is that all the time I was striving to help Alex!</blockquote> You're right, I could have responded with some patronizing or dismissive comment. Instead I chose to try to explain why we had not done what you were asking for. I guess we can agree to disagree over which style of response is best. <blockquote>Alex and Scott just haven’t gotten around to integrating the forum software they are using.</blockquote> I'm afraid that assumption is false. If you would like to request this as a feature, and or discuss the merits of said feature, <a href="http://forums.feedlounge.com/viewforum.php?id=3">we've got a forum for that</a>. Apparently I’m a glutton for punishment, because I’m going to try this one more time…

if Alex had simply said at the start - “you know that’s not a bad idea Tom - we’ll take that into consideration. Right now we’re swamped but next week/month when things quieten down a bit we’ll revisit this issue. Any other problems, feel free to contact me.�

This would have taken 2 minutes and it would have immediately ended the issue - instead Alex chose to argue the point. The funny thing in all this is that all the time I was striving to help Alex!

You’re right, I could have responded with some patronizing or dismissive comment. Instead I chose to try to explain why we had not done what you were asking for. I guess we can agree to disagree over which style of response is best.

Alex and Scott just haven’t gotten around to integrating the forum software they are using.

I’m afraid that assumption is false.

If you would like to request this as a feature, and or discuss the merits of said feature, we’ve got a forum for that.

]]> By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4419 Tom Raftery Thu, 02 Feb 2006 00:22:32 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4419 Hi again Anthony! <blockquote>They are offering a service that takes up a lot of processes.</blockquote> You mentioned this in <a href="http://www.tomrafteryit.net/feedlounges-amazing-disappearing-feeds-trick/#comment-4416">your other comment</a> and the answer I gave there was: I agree Alex doesn’t have to spend his time responding to my discussion - if Alex had simply said at the start - “you know that’s not a bad idea Tom - we’ll take that into consideration. Right now we’re swamped but next week/month when things quieten down a bit we’ll revisit this issue. Any other problems, feel free to contact me.� This would have taken 2 minutes and it would have immediately ended the issue - instead Alex chose to argue the point. The funny thing in all this is that all the time I was striving to help Alex! <blockquote>by registering on the forum AND it being linked to the user database for the actuall service, you are slowing down the entire service for those forum users</blockquote> Anthony, c'mon, seriously. Even if that were likely to be an issue, there are ways around it. Single sign-on across applications has been done by loads of companies before now. Alex and Scott just haven't gotten around to integrating the forum software they are using. If your point were an issue, then we'll have cause to complain when they <em>do</em> integrate the logins! Hi again Anthony!

They are offering a service that takes up a lot of processes.

You mentioned this in your other comment and the answer I gave there was:
I agree Alex doesn’t have to spend his time responding to my discussion - if Alex had simply said at the start - “you know that’s not a bad idea Tom - we’ll take that into consideration. Right now we’re swamped but next week/month when things quieten down a bit we’ll revisit this issue. Any other problems, feel free to contact me.�

This would have taken 2 minutes and it would have immediately ended the issue - instead Alex chose to argue the point. The funny thing in all this is that all the time I was striving to help Alex!

by registering on the forum AND it being linked to the user database for the actuall service, you are slowing down the entire service for those forum users

Anthony, c’mon, seriously. Even if that were likely to be an issue, there are ways around it. Single sign-on across applications has been done by loads of companies before now. Alex and Scott just haven’t gotten around to integrating the forum software they are using. If your point were an issue, then we’ll have cause to complain when they do integrate the logins!

]]> By: Anthony http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4417 Anthony Wed, 01 Feb 2006 23:35:55 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4417 Again, it's sad that you bring up such a small topic. They are offering a service that takes up a lot of processes. If you think of it in another way, by registering on the forum AND it being linked to the user database for the actuall service, you are slowing down the entire service for those forum users. Think logically next time, until then you've motivated me to discuss this on my website and discuss you. Again, it’s sad that you bring up such a small topic. They are offering a service that takes up a lot of processes.

If you think of it in another way, by registering on the forum AND it being linked to the user database for the actuall service, you are slowing down the entire service for those forum users.

Think logically next time, until then you’ve motivated me to discuss this on my website and discuss you.

]]> By: Tom Raftery http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4379 Tom Raftery Tue, 31 Jan 2006 23:15:30 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4379 Thanks Gary - I wondered for a minute if I was imagining it! Alex - I never accused you of being rude however, if we suppose that you are correct and that it was I who was being antagonistic in the conversation - that's how people who complain frequently are - antagonistic. It is because they are having a problem. If the vendor is ignoring their issues this only serves to make them <em>more</em> antagonistic - not less Alex! If you don't know how to deal with people who are antagonistic, then you need to hire someone who does. Fast. If you are too proud to take advice - either on how to improve your application or on your people skills - then you are in trouble. Thanks Gary - I wondered for a minute if I was imagining it!

Alex - I never accused you of being rude however, if we suppose that you are correct and that it was I who was being antagonistic in the conversation - that’s how people who complain frequently are - antagonistic. It is because they are having a problem. If the vendor is ignoring their issues this only serves to make them more antagonistic - not less Alex!

If you don’t know how to deal with people who are antagonistic, then you need to hire someone who does. Fast.

If you are too proud to take advice - either on how to improve your application or on your people skills - then you are in trouble.

]]> By: gpshewan http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4378 gpshewan Tue, 31 Jan 2006 22:44:30 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4378 Impressive - worst response I've seen to a paying customer in a long time. Impressive - worst response I’ve seen to a paying customer in a long time.

]]> By: Alex http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4376 Alex Tue, 31 Jan 2006 21:08:26 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4376 I was content to let this issue die, however since you seem so keen on continuing the discussion, I will add a final comment. My comments may have been brief, but they were not rude. I challenge you to go back and re-read the entire thread. I believe that you are the one being antagonistic in the conversation - I am merely pointing out issues and asking questions. If you would like to continue any discussion of FeedLounge features, etc. I invite you to do so in the <a href="http://forums.feedlounge.com/">FeedLounge forums</a> where I will be happy to respond to you. I am happy to let my 712 posts in that forum speak for me as to my attitude towards those who "take the trouble to complain". I was content to let this issue die, however since you seem so keen on continuing the discussion, I will add a final comment.

My comments may have been brief, but they were not rude. I challenge you to go back and re-read the entire thread. I believe that you are the one being antagonistic in the conversation - I am merely pointing out issues and asking questions.

If you would like to continue any discussion of FeedLounge features, etc. I invite you to do so in the FeedLounge forums where I will be happy to respond to you. I am happy to let my 712 posts in that forum speak for me as to my attitude towards those who “take the trouble to complain”.

]]> By: gpshewan http://www.tomrafteryit.net/thank-you-for-taking-the-trouble-to-complain/#comment-4333 gpshewan Mon, 30 Jan 2006 15:54:01 +0000 http://www.tomrafteryit.net/?p=572#comment-4333 Wow that's surprising, and it was easy to guess which application you were discussing even without the link. Customer Service should be at the top of anyones agenda regardless of your product. Lines of communication are far too quick now and word of failings spread pretty quickly. But when you are operating in a space where there are established competitors or people can use offline equivalents ... customer service is all you have to make you stand out. Wow that’s surprising, and it was easy to guess which application you were discussing even without the link.

Customer Service should be at the top of anyones agenda regardless of your product. Lines of communication are far too quick now and word of failings spread pretty quickly. But when you are operating in a space where there are established competitors or people can use offline equivalents … customer service is all you have to make you stand out.

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